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Why am I attached to my stuff?

Have you ever wondered why you feel so attached to your stuff? It could be family heirloom or that t-shirt from the marathon you ran or even the childhood teddy bear. Lily and Bonnie discuss what attachment theory is and look at some of the reasons you might be attached to your stuff. They also discuss some of the strategies Professional Organisers use to help you reframe how you look at your belongings. EPISODE SHOW NOTES

Episode Transcript

Hello and welcome I am Bonnie, and I am Lily, and this is Little Home Organised, the PodCast dedicated to helping you declutter, get organized, and reclaim time for the things you love.

LILY: Spotlight, please

BONNIE: anxious attaches there

LILY: Yeah, I think of that when I look in the mirror, actually

LILY: You can’t say that on the PodCast

BONNIE: Why not, unless you really love that type of relationship

LILY: Yes, unless that.

BONNIE: Shame on us because now she cannot go to sleep without those things.

MUSIC:

BONNIE: Hello and welcome. This week we are talking about attachment as we uncover what attachment theory is all about. We will also chat about why we sometimes attach to our possessions in unhealthy ways and how we can change the relationship we have with our stuff.

LILY: But first things first, if you are a lover of this Podcast, we have a favor to ask of you. Assuming you’ve already rated and reviewed us, we would love you to share the Podcast with a friend who may not have heard of us before. So if you are enjoying what we are chatting about, the topics that we are covering potentially you think a particular topic could someone out we would love you to share us with your friends.

BONNIE: Okay, so this was a topic you wanted to talk about, although we did talk about attachment at the recent IOPO annual virtual conference, which I found absolutely fascinating. Professor Mellisa Norberg was talking about it, but you wanted to take it a little bit further and talk even deeper about it, so I am just going to hand over to you, and I am just going to put my microphone down

LILY: Spotlight, please. So attachment is hugely interesting, and there is such a large body of research on attachment and being a postgraduate psychology student, I am especially interested in how the things that happen when we are very little affect us as we become adults and how we interact and with the world and that is what makes attachment just so fascinating, so in today’s episode we are basically going to be talking about what attachment theory is, some really notable things about attachment when we are children, how it affects us as adults and then how that then influences how we attach to belongings and why we might struggle to let go of belongings.

BONNIE: Okay

LILY: And some of the things we can do about it.

BONNIE: Okay, that sounds interesting.

LILY: I think so, so let’s dive right in, shall we. What is it, and how did it begin. So it was pioneered by a psychiatrist, psychologist, psychoanalyst, and his name was John Bowlby, and he basically found a relationship between what happens in children and how they attach, and then that then had implications when they became adults. So basically attachment is this idea that as an infant you have a primary caregiver, your mother and your father generally, or your father and father or mother and mother and they meet different needs for you and so when you are wee little bub you learn that this is the primary source or sources for meeting my needs and you attach to them. And so he did lots of different studies and you know some that we would look at now and hoo!.. horrifying around this idea but what is really important to note about attachment theory is that if our needs aren’t met, or there are deficits in this when we are younger, it can negatively impact us and how we relate to other people in the world when we get older and so from attachment theory these quadrants were basically born, some people focus on just 3 parts, but there is also plenty of research supporting 4, 4 quadrants and these 4 areas basically determine are determined as styles, different styles of how we attach and so there are names for them when you are an infant, and there are names for them when you are an adult, and we are going to focus on adults. You’re still with me.

BONNIE: Yeah, okay, cool.

LILY: Okay, so basically, you want to consider that how you sort care and comfort and security as a child depending on how those needs were met now affects how you might act as an adult. So we are going to start off with number 1, and that is secure attachment. So secure attachment is the idea that I am okay, you’re okay, I know I can rely on myself, I also know I can rely on other people, your attachment to others is really healthy, so let’s say in a marriage setting you know you might find that you never really have feelings like you are worried that your partner doesn’t truly love you or you are worried that they are going to cheat on you or anything like that and you feel that you are quite capable and that you are contributing to the relationship. You just feel secure in yourself and in the person you are with.

BONNIE: So that it is an even relationship, things are going okay and that there is no dominance and submissive relationship or

LILY: I mean potentially maybe that works for you, but it is like this, it is about the skimmer in your head it is how l look at the world, I know I am okay, and I trust that you are okay

BONNIE: Okay

LILY: I kind of come with an inherent trust in myself and other people. Secure is kind of the ideal that we are all aiming to be

BONNIE: Sure

LILY: Next type of attachment style is preoccupied, or you may know of it as like an anxious attachment type

BONNIE: Okay

LILY: Now preoccupied, you can think of it like you’re okay and I am not okay.
BONNIE: It’s not you. It’s me.

LILY: Yes, the anxious type is often worried that they are the cause of the problem or that they need validation that they are loveable.

BONNIE: Sure

LILY: So if you’re an anxious attachment, you can imagine that this is the person where they send like 1000 text messages. Did I say that okay, do you think I came across like this, do you think, what did you think when I said it like that……………..

BONNIE: I can think of someone right now who I think has that anxious attachment

LILY: Yeah, I think of that when I look in the mirror; actually, that tends to be like more of a style that I sometimes adopt, and it is so interesting because there is this like little voice in your head that is going I am not 100% secure here, but I know you are, I can trust and hang onto you. The problem here, of course, for the partner of that person, is you can imagine that would be

BONNIE: High needs

LILY: High needs and really annoying.

BONNIE: Yeah

LILY: So that kind of person might have a negative self-view, you can think like the mantra in the head of, please don’t leave me, you know, on the flip side you may there is also an attachment style which is like the dismissive-avoidant attachment style, and so this person is someone who is like I am a lone wolf, I know I can count on me, and I don’t need nobody and so the lone wolf maybe someone who doesn’t openly express emotions, talk about how they are feeling and they have all the confidence in the world in themselves, but they don’t put anything out to anyone else because no one else can be trusted.

BONNIE: Yeah, okay, so this often comes from like childhood trauma where maybe there was a parent or a sibling who broke that trust when they were vulnerable, and so they have learned to kind of close off

LILY: Potentially yes, so it is like my need wasn’t met by others, the only person I could count on was me,

BONNIE: SO is this what we would classify someone who has commitment issues

LILY: Oh, it could potentially manifest that way

BONNIE: Yeah, okay

LILY: Yeah and so the thing is with these styles is we don’t want to give them too much power, it is like your, like once your attachment is developed that is it you are done, you can’t you know have a healthy or happy relationship, they are just these like little things that happen and go on within us that we need to be aware of for when we are connecting with other people.

BONNIE: Sure, sure

LILY: So the lone wolf, they are happy to do their own thing, but it also comes from a place where they are lacking in some ways because they can’t trust others. And then type 4, this is the one that is kind of chaotic, so disorganized, and fearful. So that is the kind of person who has the attachment style of I can’t trust me, I can’t trust you, but I need to be loved, and so that maybe the person who ends up in a relationship where they are like a break-up, get back together, break up, get back together, I love you, I need you, but I can’t trust you, so I don’t want to be with you.

BONNIE: Is this kind of attachment type more prevalent in, like, an abuse type situation?

LILY: I imagine an abuse type situation could bring out this in somebody where they don’t feel good about themselves and also don’t then trust the person, but yeah, a lot of these attachment styles can be developed early on, so you could definitely look at the research and see how people who were in really unstable home lives with you know very disrupted attachment to their parent could end up becoming this way where they really find it hard to trust other people but also feel really you know that they can’t trust themselves. So, people who have more of a disorganized attachment style, they may find that they struggle to kind of emotionally regulate and have quite a lot of interpersonal issues with others because of that lack of trust and because they have that within themselves as well. So that is kind of like an adult attachment style.

BONNIE: For sure

LILY: So that is like the 4 and we all kind of, we go through life, and you know you may be secure and then have a life event, and you dip, and then you go back up secure, and you may be someone who tends to be more anxious, but you are in a really secure relationship, and so your anxiety doesn’t really come out, so there is all different kinds of things, it is not like this is who you are, you are in a box it’s your lot in life, so I definitely want to make sure that has been really clear. But one of the things you were mentioning, that we were at the IOPO conference, and we were talking about attachment there as well, and there was the speaker Melissa Norberg, and she made a few good points.

BONNIE: Yeah she was really interesting to listen to, I loved her talk on attachment and one of the things that she talked about is that children who sleep alone often tend to be the ones that attach to objects and I found that really interesting because we are not a co-sleeping family and my first thought is like oh goodness does that mean she is you know a proponent for everybody should sleep together so that we have healthy attachments but then she went on to say actually no, co-sleeping is not necessarily the way to form secure healthy attachments because then they are actually the children are actually depending on the parents or the siblings for that self regulation and that is soothing and that is not healthy either and then she went on to talk about transitional objects and she mentioned that the transitional objects are often very prevalent in younger children and I can say that this is 100% true because our daughter who is 5 has a transitional object and you might know them as like a child’s blanky or something like that but our daughter has this little singing owl and it is just a very soft flat item that we actually bought for her when she was in the neonatal unit when she was first born because she was born prematurely and we couldn’t be with her 24/7 for 3 weeks, she was in hospital and so we bought her this little singing owl and you could press its tummy and it had a very soft light and it played you know nice soothing lullaby music for about 15 minutes anyway shame on us because now she cannot go to sleep without this thing, to the point where she has two at our house, one at each of the grandparents houses and anytime she is feeling emotionally dysregulated or tired she will just go and find this thing, and she sucks her thumb as well and this transitional object is an instigator for her to suck her thumb as well which is not great when she is 5 years old and

LILY: You are worried about the pallet

BONNIE: I am worried about her, yeah

LILY: Dental development.

BONNIE: But Professor Norberg at the IOPO conference was talking about how transitional objects can actually be very good for kids because it is like a coping mechanism for them
and it is helping them to learn to self soothe without necessarily relying on you as a parent or something like that, so it is almost like it is a step in the right direction and I was speaking to another counselor recently about transitional objects as well, and he said well actually you will find that as they get older, they don’t need that transitional object, I mean how many adults do you see who

LILY: Who are walking around with their woollies,

BONNIE: With their woollies, that’s what we had

LILY: Yes, we had woollies, a little bit of sheepskin

BONNIE: Sheepskin yeah, or a tokie, that’s what some people will call them is a tokie.

LILY: That’s cute

BONNIE: And I thought yeah you’re right like I look at her now and think oh gosh at 5 you shouldn’t have this thing anymore, but he said you have got some good boundaries in place with it where she is only allowed it at bedtime and when she is feeling very emotionally distraught, and she will get to a point where she needs it less and less, and she won’t be a 21-year-old carrying around that thing. I thought, yeah, you are right.

LILY: We are doing fine.

BONNIE: Yeah, we will get there.

LILY: And so in this talk with Melissa, she was talking about how it can like if I can’t self soothe as a small person I might turn to an object, and that helps me to feel that comfort, and there is like a healthy version of that, but it also may be the root cause of someone who then grows older who may have issues with attachment, who then puts everything into objects and not into people and relationships and you know is able and connects instead with objects, and so this conversation at the conference around attachment was definitely, it was rooted in why people go onto develop conditions like hoarding disorder and so after the break what we are going to do is we are going to talk more about how, why if we are attaching to things like objects as a child how that then impacts us as an adult and what we can do about it.

YOU’VE GOT MAIL:

BONNIE: Okay, it is time for another listener question, and this one comes from Jacob in Jack River in Victoria; say that fast 3 times.

LILY: So Jacob’s question is, How can I best organize spices and cooking oils in the kitchen? I have a little cabinet space which is above the stove, hard to get to, and not ideal conditions for spices. Great point and little counter space? This is a good one.

BONNIE: That is a good one because a lot of storage design ideas, especially for spices they put them on the bench those little turning waxing stuff while they look pretty most people don’t actually that that kind of free bench space

LILY: Yeah, if you are someone who doesn’t particularly like having things on your bench that doesn’t really work either, and then the other thing that you pointed out there to Jacob is that the conditions need to be ideal for your spices because if it is really humid or hot, then you turn them. So it is like, where am I going to put things if I don’t want things on the bench? I’ve got limited space, but I also don’t want them to get ruined.

BONNIE: So there is a few options that you could look at, and we tend to do our oils and our spices just in the pantry, but we have got them in removable baskets, so you can get the long skinny baskets with the handles, and you can just pull out your thing of spices and put them back, the other thing you can do is a lazy susan if you like, that is inside the pantry so you can just turn it around and find the one that you are looking for

LILY: In our house, we have like shallow draws, we have like a drawer with a drawer within it so you can actually lay your spices down, which is nice, you need to make to sure obviously that they can’t roll around and things like that and that is not again near the stove or near where it is going to get hot but that works well for us. The other thing that we did is we have a friend who had a 3D printer and printed these little brackets, but you can just buy this kind of stuff from like, hardware store or what have you.

BONNIE: That is hard-core

LILY: I know. I think he was just really excited to print things.

BONNIE: Yeah, cool

LILY: But he like, make a little rack and then we stack it to the inside door of the pantry which is next to the stove so that as we are cooking we literally just open the pantry door and grab the spice out, so it is easy to access that way.

BONNIE: And some of those racks that do go on the inside of the pantry or your cupboard door are really useful because it is one spice deep and you can really easily see them, and you can store them alphabetically if you like or by kind or spice versus herb which is what I do and then for your oils and stuff just make sure that if they’re heavy that you don’t have too big a basket because you want to be able to grab it with one hand and you might decide to put like your oils and then your vinegar and your sauces kind of in 3 separate handled basket as well and also oils are oily so make sure that they have got some sort of plastic container or even paper towel underneath them so that they are not leaving rings on your pantry shelves because they do that sometimes.

LILY: They sure do, and it is gross to clean up, and I think with the idea of fixing things to the inside of your door, where you can take advantage of vertical storage in a space that feels limited

BONNIE: Yes

LILY: Use it because like even if you end up with things all the way up and down your door, if it is neat and orderly for you and you are able to get things off your bench, then that is like a good strategy to use as well so hopefully that helps. If you have a question for us, we’d love to hear from you. Head to the Facebook page Little Home Organised and send it on here.

MUSIC:

LILY: Okay, Dokie. We’re back, and we are talking about attachments, attachments theory. So we determine there’s 4 attachment styles. Your attachments styles is dependent on things that happen in your childhood, different things can bring out you know your attachment style or soothe it, and if you are someone as a child who attached more to objects, you may then go onto be an adult so continues to do that and really struggles to let go of possessions if that was a source of comfort, soothing for you. So if you are an adult and you are someone who struggles to get rid of your possessions, here are some of the reasons that you may be attaching to them now. No 1 it gives you a sense of control.

BONNIE: We all love a good sense of control

LILY: We do; it is one of the many things in life, there is so much chaos around us, and we notice that when we have more control, there is this soothing of anxiety, so if for you having chaos in whatever form stirs up anxiety by whatever you can do to gain control is going to help you feel better, so potentially that is by how things are looking in your home, the things that you are holding on to and collecting maybe when you feel really poorly being able to open up a cupboard and have 200 different DVDs to choose from to have any video that you could watch to soothe your mood, you know like that is a really weird example but like there are all these different reasons why we hang onto stuff and find it hard to let go and having a sense of control over our things is something that I can control an object, I can’t control a person, you know

BONNIE: You might not be able to control the circumstance or the hand that you have been dealt recently, but you can control that particular object of those things
LILY: Yeah, No 2 is you look at your possessions as an extension of yourself, so one example of this is like when you think about your and it being like an extension of your self-identity, so I look at these items and they are literally, they represent me, so let’s say that you are a quilter and so by having all of this quilting stuff in your home, you look at that, and you think that is me, people come into my home, and they see that, and they see me because that is a big part of who I am.

BONNIE: And I remember with Peter Walsh one of his very first decluttering clients on clean sweep, which is a show I don’t know maybe 10-15 years ago, maybe 20 even where there was a mum who had teenagers, and she still have all their baby clothes and when he asked her about you know getting rid of them, and their cots and all that sort of stuff she started crying and he said what is really going on here are you actually feeling like letting go of this stuff is letting go of your identity as a mother, do you feel like your best days are behind you or ahead of you. And she was like, I feel like my best days are behind me. You know my kids don’t need me as much anymore, and this stuff represents that period where I was very much needed, and I am not needed like that anymore, and so she was really struggling to kind of adjust.

LILY: Yeah and come to terms with that reality and holding onto that stuff was kind of holding onto that really powerful value of motherhood and identity of being a mum that she had

BONNIE: Yeah, it is interesting, isn’t it.

LILY: Yeah, and I think if you are someone who finds how you look really important and so you have a very extravagant wardrobe and lots of pairs of different types of shoes and hats and accessories for you, you may feel really attached to those items because they represent you being the fashionable friend

BONNIE: That on-trend friend

LILY: Yeah because to you it is important value that you be fashionable, but you also want people to see that about you as well, so it can be the things we wear, it can be the things we hold, it can be the hobbies we have but it an extension of yourself, it is a part of your identity and then, of course, like Bonnie was mentioning it could be something that is a part of your past or your present or your future, so I like to think aspirational clutter comes under here quite a bit when it comes to that clothing I am going to fit back into because I am attached to this idea that I am a size this

BONNIE: Mmm, and then you get pregnant, and your body goes oh no, we are doing this now

LILY: Oh no

BONNIE: And that doesn’t become a possibility anymore

LILY: Or you know we talk about, like, the corporate positions, so let’s say you are in a corporate role, and then you have moved out and transitioned into a different role, but you still really identify with that person. There’s lots of reasons why we feel really, really attached, and it is about our identity, right?

BONNIE: Mmm

LILY: So another reason is that the possessions represent important connections

BONNIE: Okay

LILY: So let’s think about history, so we talk about you been the curator in your family, having these possessions connects you to the history, maybe it connects you to your ancestors, it connects you to the generations before, your family name, maybe it is cultural, you know to do with your ethnicity, there is something here that is connecting you to the past, and that is an important part of who you are.

BONNIE: You know I can think of like a lot of the delft wear that our Oma had, and that is a big connection point for us because you know she was Dutch, she migrated here in the ’50s with our Opa, they got married by proxy, there is this real tie to the motherland and yeah it does impact the stuff, and there are like certain items of delft that have way more meaning because they are Dutch and they are from Holland, and my Oma owned them rather than me liking them for the aesthetic value because realistically white and blue is not a color scheme for me.

LILY: No, not for me either, but they represent

BONNIE: Yeah

LILY: That history and culture which is really cool

BONNIE: Yeah, and in fact, when my husband and I went to Europe the first trip, which I think was 2011, we actually went to one of the delft workshops and bought like a really expensive vase, but because white and blue wasn’t my thing I bought a colored one, and their colors are not as bright as colors that I would normally use in our house, but it has this really cool peacock on it, and it has got some pretty stuff on it, and that vase is like really important to us, you know we have this attachment to it because it is Holland, it is Dutch, it is delft, it is representing this trip that my husband and I took like yeah that attachment really is there when really it is just a vase.

LILY: So memories like we like to do a lot of travel, so if you are looking at these things and they are making you feel really strong, it is bringing out a strong amount of emotion like t-shirts that I have from like the Camp that I use to go to, I look at them and even though they have got horrendous holes and stuff in them now it is hard to let go of those items, and I feel so attached to them because it connects me to a place that I can’t actually readily just walk down the road to and with COVID right now it has even prevented me from going back and visiting and seeing my friends, and so it is like this thing that I am holding onto from this really wonderful time in my life, so memories might be a reason that you are feeling really really attached. It could be that history. It could be that connection to others, so you know this one item connects me to my Oma, this one item connects me to my brother whatever it might be, it is all about connections that are really, really important.

BONNIE: Mmm, yup.

LILY: Another thing that I wanted to add into this category his is that it also may represent information if you were to get rid of this item, you are concerned that the information would be lost
BONNIE: Okay, can you give me an example?

LILY: Oh, okay, so let’s say that it is like a family history book maybe so something like that was, let say it is really, really big, and you are holding onto it because you are worried that the information about your genealogy would be lost even though you could take photos and put it online and what have you, you are worried that that information would be lost or you are holding onto a bunch of newspapers because oh I did this really cool thing I ran a race, I did a marathon, and it is in the newspaper from 20 years ago, but you have kept the entire newspaper and then all of the newspapers from that year because you don’t want to lose any information about the cool things that happened that year or whatever it maybe

BONNIE: Oh, okay

LILY: Things that you are holding onto where you are worried about the information being lost. Okay, now, there was a study in 2003, it backed up everything that we are just talking about right now about why we attach to objects, but they also added a 4th category, and they said that you might be someone who is more attached to your objects because you have heightened sense of responsibility for possessions.

BONNIE: Sure.

LILY: So I think that comes down to the person who may feel like they are a curator of history. Can you think of where that would relate to something else?

BONNIE: Um, look in terms of animal hoarding and stuff, one of the types for animal hoarders is someone who has the sense of responsibility that no one is going to care for that animal, like they will.

LILY: That is very true

BONNIE: Even though they might be an overwhelmed caregiver and they can’t actually provide the care that they think they are giving, they feel like no one is going to appreciate and care for that animal as much as they are, and this translates into objects as well because people will keep things at home because they don’t want them to go the landfill and they think that a charity is not going to appreciate them and it is just going to end up getting diverted there, so often we find that people can become like a curator of their own rubbish tip in their own house because they don’t trust that anyone else will have then sense

LILY: Will do it right

BONNIE: Yeah, that sense of responsibility

LILY: Yeah, so we have got this attachment to our possessions; we have identified that we have this issue, what are we going to do, how are we going to detach. Unfortunately, there is no hard and fast rule, but the important message of what we want to achieve is separating the memory from the object.

BONNIE: Yep, yep, definitely.

LILY: So, to demonstrate this, there was actually a study, another study in 2014 and It was by some professional organizers in the states, and they were working with clients, and there was a few key strategies that these PO’s used to help their clients detach memories from objects, so I am going mention them, because you may be able to implement them at home or if you have got a loved one who is really struggling to let go to possessions, so method no 1 is call friends, acquaintances and strangers, have you heard of this one Bon?

BONNIE: We have used it many times.

LILY: Well, you can tell everyone about it

BONNIE: So this one is also really good for books, you work out okay these are the friends, the ones that I love to read and revisit, the strangers are the ones that are really weird, and I don’t ever want to see again, and the acquaintances are the ones that you maybe just don’t know yet, and they kind of haven’t, it is almost like a maybe pile sort of thing, and sometimes categorizing your items in this way, it is almost like the spark joy type thing, the friends are the books that we love, the ones that make our hearts sing, the strangers are the ones that we should get rid of because we don’t want to read them, they don’t interest us

LILY: They are not adding value

BONNIE: They are not adding value anymore, and the acquaintances are the ones that maybe we haven’t quite categorized into either one of those other categories. That is a really great way to non-emotionally; yeah, make your piles, and kind of start your sorting process.

LILY: Yep, fabulous. Method no 2 that was done in this study was treasure hunting, so basically, professional organizers would ask their clients what were the things that the client was positive they no longer needed but that they had some sentimental attachment too. So the client themselves knew they didn’t need this thing, but they still felt attached to it. What they did was the PO would ask the client to then go on a treasure hunt for those items, so the treasure hunting strategy helps the professional organizer turn the negative act of identifying unneeded objects with a strong self-identity and memory attachments into a positive act that affirms the client’s ties to these objects and their inherent value, so it was putting a bit of spin on it, it was saying let’s make this like a positive fun thing, I know you love this even though focusing on it in a different way, and this was what we were saying earlier it was all about helping them see that the attachment that they actually had was about the memory because they would get them to talk about the story of the item and not about the object and so it help the client be like, I have gone for this treasure hunt, I have told you what this memory is about this item is representing, and then the PO would say are you excited or attached to the memory or the object and they would go oh the memory.

BONNIE: It’s the memory

LILY: And then number 3 is a basic one, is the iconic transfer where we take photos of items, and we keep those instead.

BONNIE: I like when we had our episode with Dr. Frost, one of them last year where he was also talking about attachment and how there was a lot of studies that were starting to come out about it that he was actually using a new strategy of like a video diary with one of his clients where they would basically tell that story of the item, how they got it, where they got it from, what it meant to them and he said you know I don’t know what the percentage was but a super high percentage of those items, that client could then let go of because she had kind of like diarised why it was important to her.
LILY: Told the story of the memory

BONNIE: Yeah, and so it is like taking that photo iconic transfer and then taking it a step further and having yeah this like video which I think is really cool

LILY: I think so, so I am actually going to do this week’s tidy task I think.

BONNIE: Okay, go for it.

LILY: So for this week’s tidy task, it is an opportunity to reflect and think of items in your house that you are probably feeling quite attached to, possessions that you can identify, and I am sure some have come to mind as you have listened throughout this episode, so pick one of those items, have a think about it, think about some of the reasons you might be attached to it, and we have just talked about a few strategies of different ways you can think about focusing on the memory to separate it from the object, so see if going through that process allows you to be connected to that memory but let go of that item and reclaim some space in your home.

BONNIE: And if you are struggling to let go and make those decisions, please download our free decision-making tree, which will help take you through a process to more logically work out which items you need, use and love.

LILY: And that’s it for this week’s episode. Thanks for tuning in

BONNIE: And remember PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION.

LILY: See you later

BONNIE: Bye

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